Request a feature

General information about Wing42's Lockheed Vega.
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WarHorse47
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Re: Request a feature

Post by WarHorse47 » 11 Jun 2018, 17:17

My thoughts...

Radio, yes. Transponder and GPS, no. I like to keep with Vitus concept of originality.

Now saying that, if this develops into other versions like the Winnie Mae or Earhart's Vega, that's different. The Winnie Mae, for example, had a Sperry Autopilot and the first ADF. Both had converted cabins for additional fuel and at least one seat for the navigator or a passenger.

--WH

Flyby77
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Flyby77 » 12 Jun 2018, 17:35

Just want to say Thank You for a great aircraft. I like the basic radio, and follow on additions upcoming, would there be Radio Range installed early 30's version?
Phil Junkins

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Vitus
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Vitus » 12 Jun 2018, 22:52

Flyby77 wrote:
12 Jun 2018, 17:35
Just want to say Thank You for a great aircraft. I like the basic radio, and follow on additions upcoming, would there be Radio Range installed early 30's version?
Hey Phil, thank you! I am very happy you like the aircraft! 8-)
So.... let me put it this way:
The Winnie Mae will have an ADF-like radio installed, so you can recreate Willey Post's flight. I am uncertain if I should include a VHF radio that looks like it belongs in the Vega. Keep in mind that VHF telephony wasn't a thing for a looooooong time! Lots of radios of that era were Morse-code only and operated on LF frequencies. Also, there was ONE radio that fulfilled both functions: communications AND navigation.
There's no way to accurately represent this in the sim. So whatever the solution is, it will be a compromise. The way I see it, it's one of those options:
1. ADF & VHF radio devices, both to look the part.
2. Only an ADF device for navigation. (VHF still available as anachronistic handheld device)
3. Only a VHF radio that looks like an old-school radio but lacks the navigational function.

I personally think that 1 is the best option, however it creates a different issue: where the heck do we find the space in this tiny cockpit to place two big-a** radio-boxes from the 20s? :lol:
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Muller
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Muller » 14 Jun 2018, 22:02

Hi!
I just got this little beauty today. Although I have not yet logged more than an hour with it yet, I will give my opinion based on how I like to fly the sim and how I imagine using it for my flights.

I would go with either option 1 or 2, the main thing for me would be the ADF, radiogoniometer or any other radio direction finding equipment...
I like those vintage planes for flying "old style" navigation in a more realistic way, both long and short range. So yes, an ADF-like equipment in the Vega cockpit would allow me to use the plane for a broader variety of flights than just VFR, without compromising historical realism that much (I think..).

Just my two cents...

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Tailspin45
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Tailspin45 » 16 Jun 2018, 19:20

Flew a real 1929 aircraft coast to coast across the U.S. with no radios and no transponder a few years ago (it didn't have an electrical system, so we had no choice). So it is possible to operate today without them. See http://tailspinstales.blogspot.com/2007 ... y-six.html for details.

But the Vega is pure nostalgia, so please, please make sure any radios are optional and not visible, except possibly a radio-range receiver. A low-frequency radio with a worldwide or even regional set of low-frequency ranges would be fantastic and very realistic.

I encourage anyone interested in the Vega to learn to navigate with just an ADF and NDBs, at least. But radio-ranges would be awesome. The MILVIZ Cessna Bobcat has such a set-up and US coverage so it is possible. It's a fun challenge to relive the glory days of aviation and actually shoot an IFR approach using it.

Amelia's 'Little Red Bus' is a must-have repaint, and should be one of the included liveries, at least in my not-so-humble opinion.

Great job with this. Can't wait for it to be fully released.

Marco909
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Marco909 » 17 Jun 2018, 22:41

Hi, a beautiful job, I cannot think of a better cockpit for a period aircraft. The texturing, shading and weathering are up with the very best.

Looking at the surprisingly limited information on the internet it seems that the float version had a busy life. Any chance of that on the distant horizon? Regards, Mark

Marco909
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Marco909 » 17 Jun 2018, 22:45

From the Airline Timetable Images Website, Alaska Coastal Airlines:

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/alc.htm

Hire a Lockheed Vega Seaplane for $60 per hour!!

Jarek
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Jarek » 18 Jun 2018, 22:35

Well, it looks like some serious job is planned here... So few suggestions from my side.

I would also vote against radios. This is vintage airplane and should be left like that. Handheld radio can be just emulated by entry in the aircraft.cfg file, so it would be possible to bring up built-in ATC window and operate from there. Just my opinion, but I think it will be better to put some effort in other areas than working on some radio panel. With Orbx it is just fine to fly by compass and what you see on the ground, just like ~90 years ago. Room for '30 radio equipment is only on the back.

New feature ideas:
1. Possibility to attach internal fuel tanks to extend range, possibly with some manual transfer pump (?) to be able to pump fuel from the central tanks to the wing tanks.
2. Model for oil consumption. This is 2nd factor for endurance limits. https://www.laneav.com/r-1340 gives formula: 0.32 oz/(hp•h) [12 g/(kW•h)]. 1935 Manual for similar Bristol Jupiter VII engine, gives consumption figures between 3.5-7kg/h of flight, so it is also in that range for 9-cyl radial of that era. Probably because of that, Winnie Mae had 25-galon tank instead of default 10. With persistence model it would be another thing to take care of, with overheating hazard if you run out of oil.
3. Compass correction card (with table - for 360 steer 355 etc.) Something like this: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ ... -pioneer-1. Data from 'Little Red Bus' is available, hi-res photos are available here: https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/defaul ... -21920.jpg. I think it could be copied from this aircraft and simulated, so you need to calculate corrections both for magnetic and engine deviations.
4. Some models have landing lights pointing downwards, there is a switch that could be seen for left and right light, maybe this could be added as an option.

Best Regards, J

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Tailspin45
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Tailspin45 » 18 Jun 2018, 23:01

Love Jerek's ideas, especially #1, internal long range tanks, and particularly the idea that it would have a transfer pump and the fuel would have to be managed. It's easy enough to change the CFG file to allow as much fuel as you want/need, but that's no fun.

His remark about oil consumption is spot on. I once flew a behind a 1340 that burned over a gallon an hour, and worried about oil consumption almost as much as fuel consumption. His overheating (and eventual failure) idea is excellent, if it runs out of oil or th oil pump fails. Indeed, the overall, "actions have consequences" philosophy would be a huge plus. A2A comes close, in that regard, but they don't go far enough. One of the rewards of flying is meeting the challenge of properly managing the machine. Up to a point, the harder it is the more repwarding, and thus the more fun .

While I'm thinking about it, made sure that it's possible to over-prime and flood the engine so it won't start, or worse, will catch fire if severely overprimed. Best of all, make sure that if you open the throttle wide and put the mixture at idle-cutoff it will cough and sputter until the fuel/air ratio is right then a quick reversal of the throttle and mixture will keep it running.

We were amused by one airplane we flew, sold to us by a crop duster, that came with a placard on the firewall that said:
Wearing jacket - prime 5 times.
Wearing sweater - prime 4 times.
Wearing T-shirt - prime 3 times.
Too hot for shirt - prime 2 times.
Blue skies and tailwinds - Tailspin Tommy (aka Tom)

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Vitus
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Re: Request a feature

Post by Vitus » 18 Jun 2018, 23:57

Hello guys,

just to let you know, I read all your comments, I just don't always find the time to put down an answer.

About the radio equipment: I will put together the little 2d handheld radio panel we talked about before, but it will be provided as an option that's not installed by default. I might put a little configuration tool together in the future with which you can activate or deactivate the VHF radio, but for now you'll have to copy some files manually.
The ADF has to wait for the Winnie Mae version of the aircraft though. And the Winnie Mae version of the aircraft has to wait until the engine simulation is completed - which as you know, is still a bit to go.
Marco909 wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 22:41
Looking at the surprisingly limited information on the internet it seems that the float version had a busy life. Any chance of that on the distant horizon?
Hello Mark,
I am a bit shy implementing a float version. Not so much because of the modelling, but rather what's involved to get the physics right. I agree, it would be a great addition, but I think I have to say no to this one. :oops:

Hello Tailspin,
Amelia's Vega is also not too high up on the list. The main reason is that her "little red bus" was a Vega 5B, and the 5B would require some extensive rework (not only) of the tail section of the aircraft. As much as I'd love to see her aircraft flying as well, there's only so much I can do, and we might have to settle for a "Winnie Mae" with an Amelia Earhart paint-job.

Hello J,
Many good ideas, thank you very much for your time to put those down! Some of these things are on my list as well. Let me quickly address each one:
1. the additional tanks will come with the aforementioned implementation of the "Winnie Mae" (Wiley Post's around-the-world aircraft). Some basic 3d modeling is already done, but it needs lots of refinement. I am not quite sure about the fuel-usage-process though. I doubt that Post used a wobble pump to refill the wing tanks and would rather expect that he switched directly to the center tanks during flight. The engine driven fuel pump should've produced enough pressure to get the fuel pumped. If you ever used a hand-crank pump to refill a fuel tank you know that this is not an easy thing to do and takes aaaaages while your arm slowly falls off. Now imagine pumping 400 gallons of fuel..... :roll:

2. If you check the lubrication page on the debug panel (shift+9) you can get a glimpse of what's coming. On the diagram on the left side you can select different components of the lubrication module for which the parameters are then listed on the right. While this whole system is still very fragile and buggy, it gives you an idea what I'm after. You might also have noticed that there is a payload station named "oil tank" in the aircraft.cfg that I'm planning on utilizing to simulate the (ever so slight) weight change when the oil runs out.

One thing that I just realized today was that oil-changes must not have been a big thing back then, hu? If you run through ~2-3 liters of oil per hour, you only need to take care of the residue from the oil's oxidization and metal scavings, but the oil won't have much time to turn black before being spilled out the exhaust. So the job was mainly just to refill the tanks before take-off.

3. That's a good one! I was hoping no one will notice that the compass card was missing :mrgreen:
Not a priority for me right now, because there's a lot of other things that require attention, but it's duly noted.

4. Yes, the huge landing lights that you can see under the wing on some models are pretty cool. I like the idea of having some mechanism to flip them forward, but to be honest I don't know what that could be. I could imagine that the lights were moved entirely manually, but I really don't know. Maybe the switches did both: turn the lights on and moved them forward, but that would be some magic-level-electrics for that time, so I doubt that. :lol:


Back to Tailspin,
Here's one thing that I am pondering, and I can't find an answer so far. Maybe you can help me out with this one:
The oil temperature is measured before it enters the crankshaft or valves, just behind the oil filter. But if you start with 10 gallons of oil supply, the oil has more time to cool down when pumped back into the tank than towards the end of the flight when you end up with maybe 4 gallons left in the tank. That would mean that the oil temperature will be much higher the longer you fly. Or are the differences negligible?

The update after the one I am working on right now will be all around the combustion. It will (hopefully) include the supercharger/blower a proper simulation of the two-barrel carburetor with a proper mixture control simulation and the priming of the cylinders will work properly. The only reason why I had to put this part off until version 0.05 is that the heat-exchange simulation I am working on right now is essential for all those mechanisms as well.



Thank you all for your ongoing support and all your input! As I said before, I might not always reply to your posts, but I soak everything in!

Have a great day!
Otmar
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