Very impressed

General information about the Wing42 Lockheed Vega.
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Joined: 09 Jul 2018, 08:42

Very impressed

Post by Skyvan » 09 Jul 2018, 16:12

Hi everybody!

First off, congratulations on this product. Early access and already better than the stuff most of the spam-companies like Carenado sell.
What I especially like is the very detailed interior including the gauges. They behave/move very believeable. This is also one of the most important clues for immersion my sim can give me since accelerations and vibrations on my body are totally missing. Again, congrats on getting that just right! I was eager to try the plane out since I found it online on a loooong trainride.

Finally I got a week off after a more than a month of constant work. I got myself the Vega and registered in the forums. And I have put the first two hours on the plane.

I want to jump right into the topic:
Apart from the mentioned systems that are not fully finished yet there are three things that don't feel exactly right: Stall characteristics, the turn indicator and the magnetic compass.

I tried a couple of stalls, some power-on stalls and some power-off stalls. The power on stall feels very believable whereas there is virtually no tilting reaction with the power off stall.

For the Turn Indicator, I think the ball does not really feel like in a real plane. Most add-on devs get that wrong in my opinion. It should feel a bit heavier, more sluggish and less quirky.

Taking off from LKKT, in direction east, I noticed that the compass acceleration errors are missing or not as pronounced as I am used to.


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Re: Very impressed

Post by Jarek » 09 Jul 2018, 19:07

Hi Maximilian,

Welcome! Here are 2 comments from my side.
The power on stall feels very believable whereas there is virtually no tilting reaction with the power off stall.
This is very old airplane, and they usually were aerodynamically perfect in some sense, as the engines were not so powerful. With Clark airfoils the behavior should be "straight-ahead".
Please see this comment about stall characteristics for this wing from a real aircraft:

phpBB [media]

An example what aircraft from that era could do - a shot from European Challenge competition in 1934 - short takeoff and "attack" on the gate - I've added lines to expose it.
Rules for this competition:
Gate is at 8 meters. Use of brakes is allowed. Pilot can choose any takeoff distance between 0 and 250 meters. 250m = 0 points for the pilot.
+4 points for shortening this distance by 5 meters, rounded to full 1 point up.
In case of plane on the picture (with auto-extending leading-edge slats) guys made it in 76 meters with 290HP radial Skoda engine and 790kg of gross weight ;-)
20180709_182.jpg (2.5 MiB) Viewed 765 times
Taking off from LKKT, in direction east, I noticed that the compass acceleration errors are missing or not as pronounced as I am used to.
Ok, I think I need to write a separate article on this topic. In principle, rapid acceleration or dive when flying in the East direction should cause compass movement to the South. Rapid deceleration or climb should cause it moves to North. Same when flying West. Is this what you are referring to?

Best regards, Jaroslaw
Last edited by Jarek on 09 Jul 2018, 21:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Very impressed

Post by Skyvan » 09 Jul 2018, 20:08

Hi Jaroslaw!
Now this aircraft is full of surprises...please disregard my comment about the stall behaviour then. It does exactly as he says. It was just conflicting with everything I have experienced so far.

Yes, I am referring to this error, Accelerate North, decelerate south (Northern Hemisphere). I think it doesn't really work with dives because of the tilting of the compass - only in level accelerations and decelerations.


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Re: Very impressed

Post by Vitus » 10 Jul 2018, 12:18

Hello Maximilian!
Thank you so much for your purchase and welcome to the forum! First of, I'm happy to tell you that in the upcoming version 0.04 I took your earlier remarks on board and re-routed the plumbing for the vacuum instruments while decreasing the effectiveness of the venturi tube (referring to our previous conversation via email). 8-)

Ah... the stall... I'm struggling with it as well. A bit of background about it: I modeled the Vega in XFLR5 to derive the aerodynamic curves and I also was quite surprised about the stall characteristics when I punched in the numbers. It makes approaches reaaaaally dangerous as well. But as Jarek pointed out, it seems an accurate representation.

Aaaaah... My arch-enemy, the coordinator ball. The Sim's variable for it always had some issues, especially on the ground. I worked around the problems, but didn't completely replace the fs calculations. Half-arsery always bites back at some point, right? :lol:
I will make it more sluggish for the next update until it's right.

Acceleration errors are implemented in the magnetic compass and depend on your latitude, magnetic heading and acceleration. But there's another effect that might be the issue here: since the pitch of the aircraft on the ground (I think it's around 15 degrees), the compass rose is hitting its case when you accelerate and get stuck there. Btw. you can observe the effects using the debug panel (Shift+9). Go to Page 5 "Compass", and you can see the calculated acceleration error and whether or not the compass got stuck on the case. :geek:
Do you think the magnitude of the error should be increased?

Thank you for your feedback and your kind words!
Image Wing42 | The Simulation Company

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Re: Very impressed

Post by Skyvan » 12 Jul 2018, 17:32

Hi Vitus!

Good to hear! Wouldn't call it half arsery, but yes, I guess you are right about that.
Yes I think the effect for the acceleration error should be more pronounced. Usually you can see the compass moving quite well, so it is not just two or three degrees but more like ~20some, depending on the acceleration of course. Also I'd gladly appreciate if it had the turning error as well. In such an old aircraft, especially when the Compass and Magnetic Compass are your only means of navigation I think this adds a lot to the realism.

Concerning the ball...I know it is a pity with the sim's workways...only few devs got it right so far. Ususally, with most addons, you can treat the ball pretty "stiefmütterlich" or ignore it...doesn't really make a difference. When I am flying in real life I look at this gauge very often. Flying coordinated is paramount when you want efficient flying. But I have a strong feeling, that you/Wing42 is not one of those devs.

Good luck with the work ahead and if there is anything I can ask our guys from maintenance, please let me know!
Greetings, Maximilian

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Re: Very impressed

Post by Tailspin45 » 17 Oct 2018, 16:35

Frank Talman, the movie stunt pilot, reports that Vega pilots had to make a deliberate effort to keep the ball centered, or she flew "like a pig on ice."

Happily, Otmar has given us the same challenge.

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